37. From Hurt to Healing: The Art of Forgiveness with Therapist Gelissa Bultron

In this episode...

Gelissa Bultron  shares her insights and practical tips to help you navigate the often-challenging terrain of healing and forgiving past failures or pain. Tune in to this episode to learn more about how forgiveness, especially self-forgiveness, can transform your life.

We dive into the following topics: 

• The right use of compassion in empathy to forgive rather than condone 
• Reconciliation: should I or not? 
• Taking responsibility for your healing 
• How to deal with shame and not let it hinder you from taking crucial steps toward true healing and growth
• Gelissa's own journey with forgiveness and sharing what has helped her and her clients 

Mentioned in Show:

Guest bio: Gelissa is a multi-talented individual who wears many hats in her professional life. She is the president of the Mental Health Counselors of Central Florida. She is a Registered Mental Health Counselor Intern in the state of Florida and a gifted healer, entrepreneur, and leader. As the owner of Mentally Grounded, LLC, she has made it her mission to help individuals struggling with eating disorders, family therapy, and sexual trauma. Gelissa has an impressive educational background, having earned her Masters in Clinical Mental Health Counseling. Her dedication to her work is evident in her passion for healing the mother-daughter bond and helping women connect to their bodies through movement. She believes that art is a powerful form of emotional expression and encourages her clients to use it to express themselves. Gelissa's approach to healing is deeply personal, as she is a wounded healer who has overcome her own struggles. Her life's goal is to change the world by empowering individuals to heal and become their best selves. With her compassionate nature, clinical expertise, and entrepreneurial spirit, Gelissa is a force to be reckoned with in the world of mental health counseling.

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Transcript

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let's talk about forgiveness. Julissa, when we think about forgiveness, what does that mean for you and why is this such an important topic for you? Well, when I think about forgiveness, the first thing that comes to mind for me is forgiveness of myself. Acknowledging that I have made mistakes in the past and being okay with that and looking at them as learning lessons rather than punishments or karma or anything like that. And it's just more of, me forgiving myself and then learning how to forgive others through that process. Starting with the relationship with yourself and being able to first forgive yourself. Kind of like that idea of, if you can't love yourself, how the hell are you supposed to love anybody else? Exactly. Yeah. And I definitely believe in the philosophy of change starts within and. Changing from the inside out. Like that for me has been transformative throughout my whole healing journey. and that's what I advocate for my clients to do as well. Yeah. I wanna hear more about, I kind of wanna start from the beginning and then we can dive into, how that work shows up, like how you help your clients. but for yourself and your own journey, what has come up for you when we think about your healing path wrestling, with forgiveness and forgiving yourself, and now being able to understand the impact and importance of forgiving others, where does that journey start for you? What does that look like in your life? Well, it first started with self-care, so when I figured out that I was allowed to care for myself unapologetically, that was transformative. Like I was like, oh my gosh. I can take time for myself, I can say no. And that's what I started doing. And then giving myself grace along my journey. I know when I first started my healing journey, I. Felt like I needed to be fixed as soon as possible. I was like, these are all the things that are wrong in my life. And then once I fix myself mentally, then everything's gonna be good. And I remember like meditating an hour a day just looking for things to fix. And then like I was my own. I was like excavating. my life and like trying to figure out ways to fix myself. And then one day I went to my mentor and I told her, oh my gosh, I'm so exhausted. This is what I'm doing. And then she told me, well, maybe you should stop digging And when she said that, I was like, wait, but how? Like I was digging for so long. Like how do you just stop digging? it was almost like a switch was turned on when she said that. Just like when I found out about self care, it was like, oh, okay, I can just love myself for who I am. Without trying to get to this next step, whatever the next step is. That makes so much sense. It's so funny too because when you said that and started with self-care, it just was like a light bulb for me too, and just thinking, oh my gosh. I feel like that was pivotal in a starting place for me as well. For me, it was a lot of just. low self-worth and low self-esteem. and that whole basically like self-loathing, honestly. Yeah. So you're like, you're not thinking about self-love or self-care, or meeting your needs. You're probably doing the opposite of meeting your needs, with a eating disorder and like how can I really torture myself today? Yes. So then when you're like, oh, self-care, like I have needs and I deserve to meet those. Yeah, that is transformative. But then there, there was that second thing that showed up for you. Like you said, analyzing and I'd love to hear more about that and like what kind of mindset you were in the past and what mindset. That helped you realize forgiveness is important and was transformative for you. I think what you said kind of hit the nail, the hammer on the head. Is that right? The hammer on the head? The nail on the head. The nail Yeah, I yeah, exactly. So when you said about the opposite of self-loathing and self-hatred. Self care. Yeah. So it's really about looking at our strengths more than our weaknesses. And focusing on that and then allowing ourselves to blossom in that process. And then as we're blossoming, we're then finding other strengths that we have. At the same time. So it's gradual, it's slow. So you could feel a little bit impatient. I felt very impatient. Yeah. And wanting things to be a certain way as soon as possible, cuz then I'll find happiness and then everything will be fine. Is what I would tell myself, which is, not realistic because, and like nature shows us that. one of my favorite self-care things to do is to be in nature. And when, whenever I'm in nature, I make sure that like I'm looking around at the plants, at the trees, at the birds, looking at the sky, looking at the flowers, the dirt, and really paying attention to just how simple things are, and then trying to apply that to my life as well. So in what areas am I rushing and how can I slow down and be more patient in my everyday life? So it sounds like you were in the mindset of impatience and I need to fix myself and everything needs to be perfect and it needs to be done today. Versus accepting the reality that's not how life works, and that's not how nature and seasons and everything works. We're always gonna have ups and downs and different moments. So I love that idea of that playing a part of your understanding and growth. And then with this idea of forgiveness, like what does forgiveness mean for you and how does that show up? How did that show up for you in your life? Well, after I started offering myself forgiveness, I then started to think about my loved ones and how I could be more patient with them or how I could communicate more. Cuz oftentimes, we're frustrated because we're not communicating. Even though we think we are, we're often. Assuming that people are reading our minds or that they should know us well enough because they're our parent. They're our best friend, they're our sibling. And in reality, that's not how that works because they're also their own person. And it's also a form of enmeshment. Everybody has their own lives and. we, it's not realistic for us to expect them to know everything about us and also realistic of ourselves to know everything about them, because we're constantly changing. Yeah. And change is normal. And I think that's also difficult when we're healing because that means that there are things that we're gonna have to let go. And. We only think of, or sometimes we think of, like the mental aspect, like our thoughts, like negative thoughts. But oftentimes what we're also letting go of is people. Yeah. And that's really hard because if it's somebody we really love, then you know, that changes the whole process. That idea too, of enmesh nowadays there's a lot of therapist and therapeutic terms floating around on the internet. But just explain what Enmesh looks like and how you're able to move away from enmeshment. What is enmeshment? So enmeshment is basically like a form of co-dependence. it's. you and this other person are always attending to each other's needs and that's the expectation at all times, which is not realistic. And I say that because you know you have your own thoughts and feelings. or at least I would say you're supposed to. Yeah. and then the other person has their own thoughts and feelings. But what happens when somebody wants to go to McDonald's and somebody else wants to go to Taco Bell? like are we compromising or is somebody minimizing their needs so that they can accommodate the other person? And then feeling unhappy Yeah. Afterwards. We're gonna run into that a lot. I think in that enmeshed dynamic, like you said, you'll see either someone minimizing or just always compromising or I have to do this to make the other person happy, or to make them love me. Versus like, how can we. Hold that balance of, Hey, I have my own boundaries. Exactly. I have my, I'm my own person too. And Sure. When it feels good or when I can, without hurting myself, then I could compromise and I can do that, but also I don't have to compromise all the time. The time, exactly. Yeah. And the fear, that fear of compromising or not compromising co stems from. like low self worth. Oh, yeah. Hell yeah. the fact that I have to do these things for you in order to love me. It's again, you're not putting yourself first. Yeah. It's like why is this journey so similar? talk, it's like, it's okay. Past self Yeah. Well, for me I was never diagnosed with the eating disorder, but I definitely had. A very negative relationship with working out. And my inner self-talk was so negative. Every time I would do cardio or lift weights, like I was always yelling at myself, screaming at myself, you need to do another one. You need to do more. You didn't do enough. you ate that donut, or you want to eat that donut, so you need to keep working. just very mil. That's how I was inside my head, and I really thought that if I worked out hard enough that I would love myself. I would finally get to a place where I could love myself. And I was looking at pictures of myself from like maybe a year ago and I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't love my. in that picture, and I knew I didn't love my body because I was like, I look really good in that picture. and I did not see that when I took those pictures. Yeah. I saw something completely different. And I decided, I was like, I'm tired of wanting to change my body. I'm really ready to accept my body for what it is. And not hold it to this unrealistic standard or expectation or comparison. Like I just wanna be me and I'm tired of buying clothes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Thinking about accepting and just. Getting to a place where you can love yourself and forgive yourself. It's like a trifecta. Accept love, forgive. But it sounds like that's something that's played a big role for you, and I can see how that is, I think, important for everyone to get to that place. How does that show up for you in your current work? What are some of the ways that you are notice. Patterns or where people are struggling and what can help them be able to get to a place of forgiveness, right? because that sounds so abstract and so challenging to wrap our minds around, especially if we are not in that place at all or we feel like so far from that. Yeah, absolutely. enjoy starting with people where they are in the present moment. So if they're like the only places, the only part of my body that I like are my fingers, okay? love your fingers, let's start there. Yeah. And then from there, working on their values, working on what brings them joy. A lot of people I've learned don't know what brings them joy. They've been doing what other people Yeah. Have been telling them to do. And. I'm like it's crazy. And also relatable. because of course, like I was that person for sure. But then to notice that there's a lot of, women struggling with loving themselves and with everything going on in the worlds, we need women to love themselves. We need women to find joy. in themselves and be happy. And especially women of color. I think that's just really important. Yeah. Starting with the little things and then building from there and then, the acceptance, like you said, the acceptance, the love and the joy. Yeah, it makes sense. A lot of us struggle with that I mean, obviously there's just a lot of, life. There's just so much conditioning from other people and a lot of people who. don't have healthy communication or they don't know what they like. The boundaries are blurred, like Yeah, there's a lot there. So it's complicated. Yeah, because it's the culture, it's the family, it's the friends, it's society, it's teachers, it's, coaches. There's all these messages. are like just put into our brains from elementary to high school. That these are the, this is the way that things are supposed to be, or I'm trying to prepare you for the world. Then you get into the world and maybe the world is not like that, but you're not able to see that because of your conditioning. Or maybe. you're not willing to learn how to see the world differently. because of our conditioning or because, quote unquote, this is the way things are. We've always done this kind of mentality. Yeah. So I think it's so important for people to work with therapists and why therapists are. Beautiful. And have such an important role in our society to help teach these things that we're not getting in other places. Yeah. And I, therapy is like a relationship. And growth is not linear, and you've never done therapy before, and you find this therapist that you think you're gonna connect with, and they're not. The one in therapy is where we learn or can begin to learn how to effectively communicate. And the therapist should be open to that. And so if somebody's not feeling connected to the therapist, I always encourage everybody to communicate. I didn't like when you said this or when you said this, it made me feel this way. And how they respond is an example of what you should do next if they're willing to correct that experience and do something different and listen to your feedback. That's a good therapist. Like some people think the confrontation is a bad thing. Oh, I have I have to tell them that I feel this way. Yes. because then, If you can learn how to communicate with your therapist and your therapist is supposed to be a safe place, then you could begin to communicate with other people in your life. So transferring those skills and using them with your family in the workplace, with friends. I think that's really important to make sure that whoever's in therapy, that they're using therapy as a way to expand themselves. in their own environments. I can definitely, put myself in the shoes of someone who's sitting there and may even have a hard time to open up to a therapist that could be scary. Feeling like no one else gave them permission. Permission or no one else listened or validated. So it makes sense that people could e. Feel like that's too much. That's hard to sit and open up and be vulnerable and talk to a therapist. But I think it's so important for people to hear that message of that's okay. Like you're gonna meet them where they're at. It's okay if it takes some time. Maybe it takes a while to like really share. what will be transformative for them and to really take those steps and make progress. But your therapist is well trained and they can understand that and they can help you with that as well. And to just do your best to go in with that mindset. Can you give me, Examples or even stories of how forgiveness has shown up in your client's lives or in your life, and what are the steps? What does it mean to actively be working on forgiveness? That's a good question. So what comes to mind is we have these ideas about what a mom is supposed to be, what a dad is supposed to be, who our siblings are supposed to be. And when they don't meet those expectations, we feel, burnt out. We feel like they failed us. And in a, in some situations that's true. The parent was supposed to protect you and they didn't. Or maybe the sibling was really mean to you. I was bullied by my sister a lot, so I definitely understand, siblings that oh, I can't stand my sister or my brother. And so learning how to forgive your family can be really difficult. And forgiveness also doesn't mean that the pain doesn't exist. like the pain is still gonna be there. We're still validating that pain. We're still acknowledging that the pain is there, but we're also not letting it drive us into a negative space. Yeah. Being able to set boundaries with our family and. Communicating that, being open to how they respond after you set a boundary. Cuz that's also is going to be information on what to do next. So if they respond positively by saying, by being empathetic and being open to the conversation, or are they responding in a negative way and further dismissing you. Then that's something that, we would work on in therapy. Okay, well what is it that they said? What came up for you? What emotions were present? Did you feel like, a 12 year old kid again? What was that like? And then figuring out, okay, well, is it healthy for you to hold space for these people that are not supportive of you? Yeah, and everybody's gonna interpret that differently because family means a lot of things for a lot of people, depending on. your culture and your identity. so not talking to your family sometimes is not an option. So then we have to figure out, okay, well then what do we need to do so that you can be happy in those spaces when your parents are there or when your siblings are there. that's why I also think it's so important to. Have someone to talk through that with and help have a guide like a therapist, help you see what those options can be. Because it's sometimes we just get so stuck in thinking this is the only thing I can do. This is how the dynamic or the relationship with this person has always been. And we feel like we have no power to change that. But it's like you can start to learn those options of. Do I want to and is there a way I can be more independent? And does that put distance between my family or am I gonna stay more dependent but protect myself? If there's a really toxic or unhealthy type of dynamic with your family? Or can I communicate with them in a certain way? And can they also, Open and receptive and come back and they can actually change and they can actually do work and we can change our dynamic. Yeah, absolutely. And oftentimes when we don't want to address, for example, our parents are always the hardest. I'm a Latina, so coming from a Latina household or Lion, lion household, like I had to respect my mom. Yeah. I couldn't talk back and things were that way because she said so And I think also because she was in the military, played a big thing, It was very big in our household. And so setting those boundaries with family members like that is hard. And there's emotions that's gonna come up. We're gonna feel guilty, we're gonna feel shame. We're gonna feel like our feelings are invalid. So this is the other part of self-care. So if you're noticing. that you're minimizing yourself. There's been this like cultural message that it's normal and accepted for kids to minimize themselves for their parents. Rather than for parents to foster that emotion and foster that voice. And there's definitely a shift going on right now in regards to parenting. And, I know a. People on social media are talking about it and a lot of other parents I've seen are working on that but then allowing yourself, acknowledging your emotions for yourself because it's gonna make you happy. e even if you can't do it immediately right. Then just acknowledging that. Wow. Like my parent is making me feel like crap right now. And then when you're in a safe place, whether that's by yourself or with somebody else that you can trust or with your therapist, then you know, unpacking that and then figuring out also because. That relationship with our family also translates into relationships at work. And with our loved ones. And some people don't really think about that. Like for me, I realized that because my mom would want me to be quiet all the time, I didn't know how to advocate for myself in the workplace. Because I was never shown how to advocate for myself. I was shown how to be aggressive. But that's not always how you advocate for yourself. Advocating for yourself is, I really don't like that you did this to me. Can you please not do that again? In a kind, healthy way. Yeah. And yeah, exactly. It's so interesting and I, and that I mean, when you're talking about. Children being minimized. It's so true in how we see it in our society. Just so many of those dynamics. Authority makes sense, right? And there are people that are gonna be authority, but it's. It's like in such a weird way sometimes between the employer and employee or the parent and the child. Where it really just does feel like, okay, this one person has all the power, all the say. they run your life like Exactly. And then the other person is you can't even be human. Like you have to stuff down every thought, every emotion until you explode, yeah. And just do what you're told. Just follow the rules. Yeah. And follow the policies. Not be like that. Okay. At the end of the day, your parent and the employer. Can have the final say. but they should be able to take in feedback and have a healthy conversation. As humans, we should all be able to, yeah. Have conversations with each other cuz that's the only way we're actually gonna learn from each other and grow. There's no growth, there's no learning, there's no connection, there's no anything. If you can't be authentic, if you can never express yourself, if you can never say what you feel, if you can never embrace your feelings, it's like, we need to learn how to be able to have these conversations. It doesn't mean like we agree with everyone or we're just like blowing through the wind. Oh, okay, now we'll change this and now we'll change that. Yeah. We'll change this. But it's like we have to learn to be able to hear other perspectives and take that in. Yeah. And that's a learning process. Yes. Everybody is different and their communication style is different. And I would just say, work on your affirmations. It's not that you don't know how to communicate or you lack communication, but you're working on communicating. Yeah. So you know, focusing on that, like acknowledging that maybe you feel discomfort when somebody says something to you, whether at home or in the workplace. And then, trying to figure out how to communicate that to somebody in a healthy way. Yeah. So it sounds like for you, forgiveness showed up as forgiving. Maybe some of what felt like you didn't learn or you didn't have access to. Yeah. Yeah. Growing up with parents, cuz you said starting with parents. When you say you forgive that, what is like your process in forgiving? I'm still learning how to forgive. I would say that's the process. There's never like an ending point. I would really love for there to be an ending point. I think that would be amazing. Yay, we're gonna get there soon. But really it's a journey. Yeah. Like I kind of was having a conversation with myself before I got here and. realizing that I love somebody for a very long time, and then being mad at myself for loving that person. And then realizing, I don't have to be mad at myself. Yeah. Like it's all that I knew at the time and then like then acknowledging, okay, well what are the emotions that are present? Resentment came up and I'm like, okay, like I feel resentful and that's. I know that's not where I want to be. Long term, but part of the healing is about putting names to our emotions. And. Putting names to the physical sensations in our bodies that are coming up. When those emotions are present, because we're thinking that emotion is unsafe, like resentful is what society would consider a negative emotion. You're not allowed to be resentful. You're supposed to be happy. That was a learning lesson, just really dismisses it and then like just move on to the next part. But for some people, we can't just move. Yeah. You have to sometimes sit in that feeling and then when you're ready at your pace, after you've learned that lesson, then you can go to the next step. It just made me think of, and I know people always say it like, oh, a band-aid isn't helpful. You can't put a Band-Aid on it. But it actually just made me think of the opposite of you have a real wound that's there. Yeah. And. you have to, okay. Not only just put the Band-Aid, but it's like the Band-Aid's part of the process. Like you have to put stuff over it. You have to wait, you have to let, you have to put these things there and there's a time You have to give it time. Yeah. And then you can take the band-aid off and then it's Oh, it's not like this open, gross, horrible, painful wound anymore. Exactly. That's a really good analogy, and that makes me think about, after you put the bandaid or you clean it up for me, there are times when I'll take the bandaid off and just leave the wound open. because I think I read somewhere that it's good for the wound and it'll help it heal faster. And so I think healing is oftentimes like that. Yeah. Like sometimes you have to expose the wound Yeah. To the environment and be like, wow, like this really sucks. This really hurts. I don't like this on me right now. But it's here. But I also, we can't pretend the wound doesn't exist. Well, there's no wound I just believe there's no wound anymore. So there's not exactly, the wound's not there. Okay, let me know how that works for you. Oh my gosh. But yeah, I do believe like we can heal things, but some things like the wound could be so bad. Think about if you have to amputate your leg Yeah. Feel fans of pain. Yeah. It's like some wounds are just, they can be lifelong, but we can learn how to cope with it, yeah. It can be. Of a debilitating thing. It's not gonna be like that. Same exactly when we first got it. Yeah. And then the comparison. Cause other than comparing ourselves to other people, we'll compare ourselves to who we were a year ago. Yeah. Thinking about, I know mass shootings are like the really big right now, unfortunately. Yeah. And so for a person who's healing. in that way, dealing with that pain, you might not get back to the person that you were before that. Yeah. Yeah. Or even if it's a car accident, I was in a car accident, so like I am accepting that my body may not get back to where it used to be. Yeah. Before the car accident. It's really hard when we have all, like, all these goals and ideas about, the cool things that we wanna do. I think that's what also makes life more beautiful because then there's something else that's available for us. Yeah. On the other side. Yeah, I agree. And I think like it's so true. You have to just forgive and accept. Okay. Forgive if we felt like we wasted time or we were, we made a decision that wasn't the best for us, or we just got hurt. Like we just have to forgive. Cuz we can. kind of just make our own wounds worse, right? Like we can be our own worst enemy. Yeah. And someone gave us the wound, like our parents, right? Yeah. And then we can just get into this like victim mentality and just keep reopening our own wound and just carry it and making it worse. Yeah. Or we can work. a self care. Yeah. And accepting and healing. And it doesn't mean there's no scar there. It didn't exactly but it, and it's and it can fundamentally impact us and change things. Or not be what we expected, but it's like what's in our power is to to at le what are we gonna do now? Exactly. And gonna just sit here. Fixate on my wound and reopen it. Yeah. And hurt myself now. well, I feel like sometimes some people need to do that. Yeah. Like sometimes we do need to go back and. pay attention to what hurt us. Cuz it's showing us also what we want to be different. Yeah. Like it's showing us where we needed help and safety and we didn't get it. And it's also complicated too when we're thinking about family or like societal things that are going on around. Cuz there are things that are out of our control. And when things are out of our control. it makes it difficult to even, rationalize, and then it can turn into a whole spiritual thing and like why would this happen to me? Yeah. Like a lot of times we get stuck in that kind of, existential crisis of Yeah, why did God do this to me? Yeah. And it's really more, and my approach really in therapy is really more about slowing down. sometimes people will come in and they'll just be talking really fast and I'm like, okay, well let's slow down cuz you just said something that was really important and let's focus on that. Rather than trying to get it all out, because then once you get it all out, it'll, you'll feel better. A lot of people want to intellectualize. Yeah, I know. Mental health. And they just wanna talk about it. No. Part of it is also, Feeling it. Yeah. Noticing the physical sensations. Noticing the emotions. Yeah. If we're feeling resentful, are you judging that? Okay. Well let's talk about that judgment. like how is that impacting you? and help, how's that impacting you to get to the next step? Yeah, I love that you said that too. I mean, and it is, cuz again, it's like we can jump to okay, like what are you gonna do now? Or how are you gonna improve yourself in the self-care? But again, it's like we're human and we have to go through that. Process and a lot of times, what we know is not healthy long term? It's still part of our journey or it's still helping us survive in some way. The bad coping mechanism mechanisms. exactly. The eating disorder, the things like that. Yeah. It's okay, well right now, you know with where I'm at, this is what. can do Y. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And that can be difficult for eating disorders with, for example, cuz that's also what I specialize in. So that can be tricky because your expectation of your eating disorder or your understanding of your eating disorder. A lot of times your loved ones are not gonna understand that. Yeah. They're just gonna see you're harming yourself. You need to stop. And so again, learning how to communicate to your loved ones, what you need. and then reflecting on the conversation after it's, Yeah. Were they receptive to that? Are they making those active steps or are they stuck into their idea of what an eating disorder is? Yeah. I think it helps with forgiving ourselves too, of understanding that these things that might show up for us in our healing journey, where I feel like we're always, like you said, it's like lifelong. What we're doing today, we might not be doing next. Next year. Exactly. So we have to just keep looking back and like forgiving that version of ourselves. Yeah, exactly. My least favorite question is whenever somebody asks me like, oh, if this happened in the future, how would you respond? And I'm like, I'm like, I don't know how I would respond because I don't know the kind of person I'm gonna be in the future. Yeah. Like how I would re if it happened now, this is how I would respond. But yeah. If it happened in the future, like I have a new set of ideas and experiences That are going to change the way I respond. You shared so much about the steps you've taken for forgiveness, but where can someone start? If they're listening and they're like, I've been feeling called to forgiveness, or I hear this, I'm just like thinking about forgiveness, but it just feels so abstract for me. where would you tell them to start? What would be some steps that they can take? I would say awareness, just being aware that something is off. Something is out of place even if you don't have the language for it just yet. Just being able to notice that something is out of place and you're not sure exactly where it's outta place. You don't know if it's in you or the people around you. Just noticing that. The first step. Yeah. Because then once you're able to become aware of it, then that it'll show up. and then you can learn to maneuver around what it is that's coming up for you. So how can someone become aware? What helps them, bring that awareness into their life? Stillness. I know. Nobody likes that. I hate, hate, hate stillness, Nobody likes that. I love stillness now. I do too. But it's funny because my whole life I didn't, and now I, stoics and like stillness is the key. But Yeah, because it fe it makes you think it's oh, you're not productive. Who wants to be still? We're in this go go world. But that's so funny. Yeah. Stillness. Can you even just define that? Cuz I feel like I'm thinking of my old self and hearing someone say stillness and just literally like the picture I get is just sitting in a dark closet. nothing That's what it feels like. If you've never done stillness before it, it'll definitely sound like that. Like you want me to do nothing? That's impossible. I have all these chores, but. Okay. So for some people, stillness is triggering for them. So keep keeping that in mind as well. It's not for everybody, but I think people can do it in a way that works for them. S but the first thing that comes to mind for me is again, like micro stillness. So putting a timer on your phone every, three hours or every hour, whatever works for you. like five minutes of just, or two minutes of just breathing. Just, your hands are away from your computer, your hands are not on your phone. Your, you're being intentional about those few moments that you're having with yourself. Yeah. And just like noticing. how your body feels. Noticing the thoughts, and like working at your own pace. It's like weight training. You don't go into the gym and pick up a 95 pound dumbbell. Yeah. You start off probably with five pounds. So giving yourself a few moments and then you do a few reps, and then you wait, you see how your body feels and then you try again. That makes so much sense. It's not okay, and now it's Saturday and I have to lock myself up. in a straight jacket, nothing. Yeah. It's okay. It's not a timer for five minutes. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Just set a timer. Five minutes is a lot for some people, like maybe just one minute or 30 seconds, of just pausing. Yeah. Or if and if that timer goes off and you so happen to be like, sweeping and mopping or in the kitchen, cooking dinner, then, just take that moment to notice what it is that, what it is that you're doing. if you're sweeping. Okay, well, is there like dirt around you? Like noticing the broom in your hand? Yeah. Yeah. Noticing the mop in your hand, noticing the spoon in your hand, or noticing your child in your hand, noticing the TV that it's on. Are you really paying attention or are you like just drowning it out with your thoughts? Yeah. And why do you think that stillness and awareness is so important versus. It's being distracted and an autopilot Well, it helps us to understand ourselves and again, like what we need. Yeah. And your needs are important. and I think that's what self care is about and forgiveness is about you are important. You are worthy, you matter. And for some people they didn't get that as children. So giving that to yourself at whatever age you are is important, and it helps to reconstruct these ideas that you have about yourself and the world around you. Yes. Great. All right, last question. What are some of the tips, tools, routines, practices that you personally love to stay high? Vibe? Ooh, to stay high vibe. I really enjoy walking my dog. I take her on morning and nightly walks, and that really helps me. And I enjoy doing yoga. I enjoy mindfulness. I enjoy meditation. I enjoy like connection. So this is really great right now because love me. So Melissa Yeah, my star seed. Yeah. So yeah, this is great. Seed Awesome. Thank you so much, Jalisa. Where can everyone work with you, follow you, and what do you have in the pipeline? What are some things that you're excited about with the work you're doing? So my website is mentally grounded.com. You can follow me on Instagram at Mentally underscore grounded dot llc. You can also find me on Pinterest and Facebook, and I'm accepting new clients. So that's exciting, Awesome. Thank you so much.